The sides

[Tempest of Reach]

You do have a point Fallen... still even if the clans are split, then it dowesn't mean that it'll be good Vs evil... as the pro-sacrifice won't be evil exactly...

[-- Adri ]]

I agree Fallen, which is why I said Angelwing wouldn't immediately oppose.

And there is a medicine cat signed up to be pro-sacrifice! SC meddie, Flyingfeather, is played by me and I think she'll go along with it ^^

[Cheese]

this is turning out of be a really good plot! im so excited! besides, maybe lifeclan could be only temporary...just a thought!

[Tempest of Reach]

Yeah it could be temporary... and it would create a lot of tension... as cats in the clans would know that they have fought against each other...

I like that idea!

[echo]

I agree with Fallen, and it technically IS good vs. evil if they split. You just said so yourself they "would know that they have fought against each other... "
Must every single plot have a material enemy?

[Tempest of Reach]

It wouldn't be Good vs Evil. It'll be pro-sacrfice (thinking they are following Starclan's way) V.s Againt-sacrifice (those who think that life should be protected.it isn't Starclan's way)

[fαllεη •]

Yay, Flyingfeather! :D

That's true, Fury. But we don't need a split in the Clans to show this. You'd have to really hate the sacrifices, surely, to literally leave your clan, and everyone you know and love, to oppose them. Not to mention, all the cats who leave will have to be re-accepted into the Clan - they can't just skip back in like nothing has happened, to the drum beat of a conquering hero. The Clan cats might even hate them, see them as running away in their time of need for support and loyal members.

Besides, we have BoneClan! Why do we need another Clan to appear, when we already have a clan coming? It'd be like repeating the same plot all over again, except with a different catalyst and the switch of 'good' and 'bad' clans.
And I think 'LifeClan' was only going to be temporary -given that 'there have always been four Clans in the forest', as Bluestar says.

LifeClan will only make this plot end with a massive battle, just like every other Warriors plot out there. This plot depends on social interaction between cats, as they work it out and solve the problems: on their ability to reason, and to survive through all of this. If the Clans split, not only do we need more cats for this plot, which already hasn't enough sacrifices, we need to ignore what the plot is based on.
With the sacrifices, we're already going to have one major scene. (Which will have to be carefully organised, so that no-one who participates gets left out and left behind.) So to organise at least two major threads, the setting up of a new Clan, the creation of new cats, etcetera, not only does it seem to save more time not involving the new Clan, it involves more in-depth interaction between and with characters. With a good-versus-evil plot (which I am going to call 'GvE' if I have to type it once more), it's just "Oh, they're the bad guys, we have to kill them or make them see things our way!" The 'enemy' is obvious and therefore boring, and no-one wants to role-play them. With this plot, there's a constant dynamic. You can have a gentle, sweet she-cat on the side of the pro-sacrifice, and have this constant internal battle against the Clan she loves and the cats who are dying. Or you can give her a harder streak, or can say that she is so loyal to the ones she loves that she is willing to support the sacrifices, if StarClan will save them from leafbare. Many people make the rationalisation 'one life for many' or 'the end justifies the means'. With not splitting the Clans, we can give the same rights and phrases to our cats.

We've all role-played or read about the final battle of GvE, and after a while, it becomes just another plot. Why not give this site something different?

[Tempest of Reach]

Who says that all memebers of Lifeclan will remove themselves from the clans? Plus why will Lifeclan have to fight to end the sacrifces? They could do exactly as you suggest, they could talk with the cats of the clans to attempt to end the sacrifice...

[fαllεη •]

Oh, so LifeClan will be a sort of... sub-Clan? Interesting. So we don't need to bother about making a camp for them or anything.

I guess you have a point then, Fury. It makes sense that the cats who are opposed might want to band together. But then what would be the point of calling them a clan if they don't leave their clans?
I'm assuming this would mean that the cats who are no longer part of their clans would form a sort of intermediary between the cats who chose to stay. Except that raises the point: what will happen once the pros figure out what's going on? Naturally, we have a fight sequence, but I like this one better. Still, it hasn't cleared up for me the issue of this whole GvE thing. Cats will join for their own reasons, of course, but I don't see why we have to give them a group, just because they're against the sacrifices. While they will be against for different reasons and in different ways, I would prefer to see this kind of thing... Develop, I guess, rather than be plotted out at the beginning, when we won't need them until months from now. (And if anyone is shocked by that, well, did you expect this would only be for a week? ;) A good plot needs a lot of time, and this one probably more than most.)

Well, I have always been against setting every inch of a plot in stone: it's all up to the cats. I still don't like the idea of making them a clan, though. If they're not going to leave the clans, that just makes them a group of cats who are opposed, who we don't have to name. And if they do leave their clans, well, I think I've made my opinion clear ^^;. I didn't see this plot as being resolved by a group of cats, named and numbered, who remained rational through the chaos: that didn't resonate with me. I'm more for a gradual thing. I am sure you weren't planning to implement LifeClan immediately, but how soon would you have planned to put them in? It's not going to be much of a plot if we immediately start finishing it: we'll need many moons of RP for it to even qualify as more than a sub-plot. Perhaps when we start finishing up the plot, I think

So, my point, if that was too vague -as I think it was XD.
I'm still against LifeClan. I don't see the point of calling them a clan, or making them a clan, if they're not going to leave the Clans. I don't like naming them, because as Echo said, that's just making them another GvE thing again. On the other hand, I am not opposed to a group of cats who, eventually, admit to each other that they are not against the sacrifices. It will have to be dangerous. There will have to be more pros than antis -otherwise, how would the sacrifices take off in the first place?.
In short, a group of cats, like LifeClan, but not named and certainly not with a definite hierarchy, might develop later in the plot. But in the beginning, it doesn't make sense for cats to say "We are against this!" outright, as they would be completely outnumbered and kicked out: it would destroy a brilliant plot... And why am I writing so much?! *Shuts up*

[echo]

Again, I'm with Fallen all the way. I just don't get why you're so dead set in the fact that the cats who oppose must oppose it outright immediately from the start and already try to stop it. So far the only reasons you've given is that they don't like it and because you think the clans should change immediately with a split--in short, GvE. No matter how you put it, that's how it would come out to be, with the evil baddies being the ones sacrificing cats in the name of their almighty ancestors, and the good guys somehow putting an end to it all on their lonesome. As for how it begins:

Dec 17, 2009 17:55:53 GMT -5 echo said:

How it Began

It all began with one misunderstanding.

Leafbare was harsh. However, the one that had befallen the clans was even worse than any other that had gone before, and those that had yet to come. The days were cold, as though the sun had been snuffed out along with all its warmth and light. Much of the water all around had frozen, becoming beds of ice. Most of the prey had either died or were burrowed deep underground, few ever venturing out for food because of the biting cold that threatened to freeze everything it touched. All four clans were suffering greatly from hunger, thirst, and greencough, which was taking its toll. It isn't long before they each start squabbling for more territory, for more areas to hunt and gather herbs. Despite the circumstances, they are willing to fight their rivaling clans, for they are the only tangible foe. However, still no one makes a move as they await the other to act first.

The tension continues building, until one Gathering, where it finally became too much. One fight between two cats quickly grew to become a full scale battle. Despite the will of StarClan, even a cloud covering the moon is unable to put a stop to the cats' desperation, paranoia, fear. And anger towards their warrior ancestors, who have done nothing to help. In the heat of the battle, a single cat was killed atop the Great Tree. Hearing the cat's dying yowl, suddenly the fight ceased. The sky cleared, as the clans realized they had broken the truce, and they each quickly return to their own territories.

Miraculously, the day following the cat's death has brought a great change. Suddenly, there was prey. The weather grew warmer. Herbs grew almost overnight. At first the cats are confused. Was it StarClan? Were their ancestors helping them at last? Most cats were too relieved to care. However, others were more curious. Out of the overwhelming sense of relief and gratitude, a term that had never before been spoken by the cats began to circulate around the forest: Sacrifice.

[Tempest of Reach]

Jumping to conclusions is annoying...

Who said that they would spilt immediately from the clans?
Who said that all memebers of 'Lifeclan' would remain members of their clan? (I'm certain that at least one cat in all four clans would hate the sacrifces enough to split)
Who said that 'Lifeclan' would be a clan like the other clans? It could just be what the group of cats, oppessed to the sacrfices call themselves. They don't have to have a leader/deputy yada yada yada...

[fαllεη •]

I think some of those conclusions were rather obvious ones to jump to, if you don't mind me being so blunt ^^;. I will admit that there was little to suggest that they would split immediately from the clans, but I don't believe any of us ever assumed that LifeClan would be either or in terms of leaving: my examples were merely to demonstrate a point.

As to 'who said the cats would become a Clan', I believe you did. "... is it okay that if enough cats gather, they become a clan known as Lifeclan..."
And you wanted Tempestfury, Lightfight and Angelwing to fill the normal high positions: leader, deputy and healer.
I perfectly understand if you think I am being unreasonable -after all, differences of opinions have been known to cause wars!- but this is how I see things, and as... colourfully... as I may sometimes express myself, I don't mean to cause offence. I knew there was a reason I use smilies so often XD.

[Tempest of Reach]

Well I've changed my mind.

[Cheese]

maybe the oppositions could start small and then work into LifeClan? I don't know. Slowly but surely? Just an idea...oh and btw fury thank you for agreeing with me earlier.

[Tempest of Reach]

Hey no problemo!